Life Forum
« The Death Penalty »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Feb 21st, 2018, 09:06am



« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1 2 3  Notify Send Topic Print
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: The Death Penalty  (Read 4281 times)
Tim
Administrator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 589
xx The Death Penalty
« Thread started on: Feb 15th, 2004, 05:36am »

Perhaps this should be in the ethics board, but this is also political,and this baord needs topics tongue
*************

(Daisaku Ikeda from "Choose Peace" - A dialogue between himself and Johan Galtung)[slightly changed]
Well the statistics don't really show anything substancial toward the benefits of capital punishment. Many of the world's great thinkers argued passionately against it. Victor Hugo for example put into one of his literary creations his feelings toward it. He believed that life imprisonment is suffeicient enough for any crime.
On the other hand Goethe seems to have considered vengeance and capital punishment as kinds of self defence, and thought that, revenge, if legalised, would replace capital punishment.
Mahatman Gandhi, who has far above revenge, said it braver to forgive then to punish an enemy.

(Johan Galtung in "Choose Peace")[slightly changed]
We have two ways of looking at it. We can confront the wrongdoer with what went wrong and how karma(he did use this word) can be imropoved for the sake of the future. To compensate for the crime, repay stolen money, heal wounds and so on. This approach is the mature way of combining reconciliation with self-improvement.
It seems also that many of the worlds problems are solved this way than appears to be the case on the surface. But our legal system doesn't work like that(and our society). We can hardly expect I suppose a raped women or the bereaved survivors of a murder victim to forgive an evildoer.
The other is to have the godlike attribute of being a granter and taker of life. I am against this as I believe no-one has the right to destroy life. Additionally, I am against it as it ligitmizes killing. If a state considers itself justified in taking life, it will have little hesitation in taking it abroad. The hundreds of US military interventions is a good illustration of this point.


Can you analyse the situation, and tell your thoughts?
User IP Logged

"One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." -Gandhi
torrich
Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

"Ignorance is like an exotic fruit: exquisite, yet touch it and it is spoiled." - Oscar Wilde


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 237
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #1 on: Feb 15th, 2004, 5:05pm »

Capital punishment seems to make society more violent as a whole, as the state is "murdering" people for crimes that would be sufficiently punished by imprisonment. Perhaps giving the criminal death is merely satiating his desire to stay out of prison? We see examples of this violence in society in Revolutionary France and Current day USA.
User IP Logged

A journalist (to W.S. Gilbert): How's Bloodygore coming along?
W.S.G.: It's not Bloodygore! It's Ruddigore.
Journalist: Oh well, it's the same thing!
W.S.G.: So I suppose if I say I admire your ruddy countenance, it's the same as saying I like your bloody cheek?! Well it isn't. And I don't.
Tim
Administrator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 589
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #2 on: Feb 16th, 2004, 12:35am »

true.

Quote:
Perhaps giving the criminal death is merely satiating his desire to stay out of prison?

Yes, in his/her current state of life, someone who is murderous and destructive, may not really care about living life, and will want to end it.
But can we realise that they have the potential to cherish life and be good?
User IP Logged

"One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." -Gandhi
Thoth
Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Scribe of the Gods


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 293
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #3 on: Feb 17th, 2004, 8:14pm »

My main problem with capital punishment is how final it is. If an innocent person somehow ends up on death row, well, execution isn't like a prison sentence; you can't let them go with some sort of compensation. It's too late.
But then, it seems to be what the masses actually want... listen to random conversations during a well-documented trial of, say, a child rapist and murderer, everyone says how they should be killed. I can't fathom it... surely rotting away in a dark prison cell is more punishment than ending it quickly? After all, you can't feel guilt when you're dead.
User IP Logged

"I am Thoth who proved the truth of the words of Osiris before his enemies on the day of the weighing of words in the great House of the Prince, who dwelleth in Anu."

Chapter XI, Egyptian Book of the Dead - Papyrus of Ani
Tim
Administrator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 589
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #4 on: Feb 18th, 2004, 01:30am »

It doesn't see the potential in each human being. The potential to make others happy and achieve great things. Can society at current, however, provide support to bring out potential in the most demented people? Do we want to?

Killing a human being for the death of another is hypocritical
Gandhi: "An eye for an eye, makes the whole world blind"
User IP Logged

"One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." -Gandhi
Thoth
Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Scribe of the Gods


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 293
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #5 on: Feb 21st, 2004, 9:00pm »

I think that some people are at the far edge of being beyond hope of returning to civilisation... they just don't wanna. It'd take something amazing to drag them back, far more than a few kind words. Though that still doesn't mean you should kill 'em. It's like the government saying 'it's OK to kill sometimes'.
User IP Logged

"I am Thoth who proved the truth of the words of Osiris before his enemies on the day of the weighing of words in the great House of the Prince, who dwelleth in Anu."

Chapter XI, Egyptian Book of the Dead - Papyrus of Ani
torrich
Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

"Ignorance is like an exotic fruit: exquisite, yet touch it and it is spoiled." - Oscar Wilde


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 237
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #6 on: Feb 21st, 2004, 10:52pm »

That's like what I was saying before.
User IP Logged

A journalist (to W.S. Gilbert): How's Bloodygore coming along?
W.S.G.: It's not Bloodygore! It's Ruddigore.
Journalist: Oh well, it's the same thing!
W.S.G.: So I suppose if I say I admire your ruddy countenance, it's the same as saying I like your bloody cheek?! Well it isn't. And I don't.
Tim
Administrator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 589
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #7 on: Feb 22nd, 2004, 02:43am »

Thats what we were all saying.

Its intersting to note that in New South Wales(Australia) mental health treatment is so poorly treated on a private or public level, that you can get better treatment in jail!!

So apparently we do have good treatment in jails. But I don't know if that's just aiding the mental health or also the morailty..?
User IP Logged

"One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." -Gandhi
Thoth
Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Scribe of the Gods


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 293
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #8 on: Feb 22nd, 2004, 3:52pm »

I saw something on TV called 'Crime Business', and it was an epidode talking about prisoners, and in several interviews with ex-prisoners, they suggested that prison can actually make matters worse. Between all the inherent hatred of the system for locking you up away from your friends and family, there's the fact that they have to bottle up their emotions or they're considered weak and taken advantage of/treated violently, the fact that petty criminals can go in with professional criminals and come out pros themselves... and they also suggested that it was really stressful, having to figure out which people will befriend you and which will just beat you for no reason.
If those are accurate and common facts, I don't think that the current prison system is doing much besides containing some... and I think it was an ex-prison government who said that prison made more criminals than it reformed... y'know, someone can go to jail for something that isn't particularly immoral... something financial, like not paying your taxes for some reason... and come out violent either because of your anger, or because of the professional criminals who taught you the tricks of the trade...
User IP Logged

"I am Thoth who proved the truth of the words of Osiris before his enemies on the day of the weighing of words in the great House of the Prince, who dwelleth in Anu."

Chapter XI, Egyptian Book of the Dead - Papyrus of Ani
Tim
Administrator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 589
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #9 on: Feb 23rd, 2004, 04:59am »

hmm, well thats very bad too then isn't it.

We don't have jails that can help people. We don't have institutions to keep people out of jail, or insitutions that can help people who aren't in jail(in one way of thinking of it)
User IP Logged

"One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." -Gandhi
Thoth
Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Scribe of the Gods


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 293
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #10 on: Feb 23rd, 2004, 9:42pm »

That would be good... rehabilitating someone before they commit a crime, lol
User IP Logged

"I am Thoth who proved the truth of the words of Osiris before his enemies on the day of the weighing of words in the great House of the Prince, who dwelleth in Anu."

Chapter XI, Egyptian Book of the Dead - Papyrus of Ani
torrich
Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

"Ignorance is like an exotic fruit: exquisite, yet touch it and it is spoiled." - Oscar Wilde


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 237
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #11 on: Feb 29th, 2004, 4:46pm »

That's where a good education system is important. When people receive a good education, they will know that breaking the law doesn't pay, and getting a good job is a far better goal to work toward than robbing a bank, etc.
User IP Logged

A journalist (to W.S. Gilbert): How's Bloodygore coming along?
W.S.G.: It's not Bloodygore! It's Ruddigore.
Journalist: Oh well, it's the same thing!
W.S.G.: So I suppose if I say I admire your ruddy countenance, it's the same as saying I like your bloody cheek?! Well it isn't. And I don't.
Tim
Administrator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 589
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #12 on: Mar 1st, 2004, 04:43am »

Yes there is that, and also the thing that killing and rape etc are based upon their own suffering which has lead to greed and hatred. If we can create a society to help the ill and nurture happiness and positivity then we can create not only a lot of work but a lot of free-thinking positivity to create better work and a better society and culture.
User IP Logged

"One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." -Gandhi
Thoth
Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Scribe of the Gods


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 293
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #13 on: Mar 1st, 2004, 7:42pm »

Well, it's all very well saying that. But how?
User IP Logged

"I am Thoth who proved the truth of the words of Osiris before his enemies on the day of the weighing of words in the great House of the Prince, who dwelleth in Anu."

Chapter XI, Egyptian Book of the Dead - Papyrus of Ani
Tim
Administrator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 589
xx Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #14 on: Mar 2nd, 2004, 01:08am »

I'll tell you how I am, and the organisation I am apart of are working toward that.
As I have told you so many times, change in the world, change in our society and our community is all dependant on the change in even one human being.
My buddhist organisation strives to help everyone in it and those not, to making a 'human revolution'. Which is sort of like true happiness or the 'modern version' of buddhahood.
IF we hold peace, equality, non-violence, effort, happiness, compassion truly close to our life and our heart, then we can make influences in our environment based on that.
We can teach others how to live life with courage, effort, initiative, compassion, happiness and peace. IF a lot of people take on such a way of life then there is nothing that the individual and the community cannot achieve.

I now am involved in an exibition called the Gandhi-King-Ikeda exibiton, which exibits what non-violence is and these 3 great leaders of non-violent initiative. It was started by the Dean of Morehouse College USA(where Martin Luther King went to) Professor Lawrence Carter and has been travelling around the world. Ikeda by the way is the president of Soka Gakkai International, the buddhist, peace community I am a member of.

It teaches how non-violence is not just being passive and against violence, but changing your own ideals and way of life so that you can truly make changes in the world. When a whole society believes in the equality for life then there will be no need for he death penalty.

Don't get me wrong we don't promote our organisation with such exibitions, only peace and non-violence awareness.

So this is one 'grass' routes way of solving society's problems(atleast a brief snippet of it). This of course takes a long time, but you can't force things like this upon people, it is usually slow.
« Last Edit: Mar 2nd, 2004, 01:09am by Tim » User IP Logged

"One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." -Gandhi
Pages: 1 2 3  Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls